Comparing Flat Silks for Hand Embroidery, part II
Flat silk is used hand embroidery in a variety of techniques. I've recently been on a "flat silk" kick, as you may know from my previous comparison of flat silks. I've added the flat silk from the Japanese Embroidery Center into the comparison now, and have some photos to share with you.
These photos of flat silk don't really do the different silks justice. You have work with them, feel them, play around with them, to really get the sense of which ones you like best. The thoughts here are just my opinions, after playing around with the different silks.
Unfortunately, I ordered rather pale colors from the Japanese Embroidery Center, so they don't show up as well in the photo. What we have here are three types of flat silk: Au Ver a Soie Soie Ovale, Japanese Flat Silk, and Eterna (which is a Chinese flat silk which comes in groups of 12 strands).
This is the Soie Ovale up close again. You can see the individual filaments of silk (I believe they are called "suga") which make up the full strand.
This is the Japanese silk up close. It looks fuzzier in the photo than it actually is. You can see farther down the strand, away from the end, that it is not as fuzzy as it looks. The "fuzzy" end comes from handling. Again, you can see the individual very fine suga. Each strand of Japanese silk is made up of 12 suga.
Here, you can see the stranded silk from Eterna, which I purchase from Yodamo. Each "bundle" has 12 strands, not to be confused with filaments or suga, which are much finer. Each strand of the Eterna stranded silk would be made up of so many filaments. It takes approximately 2 strands of Eterna to equal the thickness of one strand of typical DMC 6-stranded embroidery floss. So - you guessed it - one strand of Eterna is very fine, and can be used for fine detail work. Believe it or not, the strand can be further split for even finer work.
Filament silk, by the way, is the silk pulled straight from the cacoon in long strands - as opposed to spun silk, which is all the left-over spun into the thread or floss. Filament is generally stronger silk with a higher lustre.
Here, I've divided the Japanese silk (the top one is divided) and laid it next to the undivided Japanese silk. You can divide this filament silk carefully. It will go back together in a smooth strand when you run it through your fingers (I suggest Au Ver a Soie hand cream when you're doing this kind of work - it reduces the friction on the thread and the snags...) Separating the filaments gives you an even finer thread to work with.
Another close-up on the Japanese silk....
Here's the Soie Ovale separated carefully. Again, same thing - after you've separated it, running it through your fingers puts it together again for working.
Just to give you some perspective, I threw in a #10 embroidery needle, so you can get the relative size of the threads.
And here's one strand of Eterna Silk and the Japanese silk side-by-side.
The Japanese silk comes in 60-meter spools from the Japanese Embroidery Center, at $7.00 for 60 meters. Shipping is reasonable, but somewhat slow. They guarantee shipping it out within five days of placing the order. Sometimes their website is quirky and doesn't seem to work, but with persistence, you shouldn't have a problem. You can also call and place an order. All the information is on their site.
The Soie Ovale comes in 15 meter spools for about $3.35. In other words, for approximately the same price as the Japanese silk, you get 40 meters less! I order Soie Ovale from Needle in a Haystack, which is the only place that seems to carry a ready selection of it. If she's out of stock, she's quick to place the order and get the product to you. Shipping is very reasonable, and the turn-around between order and arrival is minimal.
To sum up, these are my observations on the above silks.
Soie Ovale
Japanese Flat Silk
Eterna Stranded Silk (Chinese Flat Silk)
If you have any insights into other silks, or questions about any silks in particular - or any recommendations, etc. - feel free to share!! I'm all ears!
I'm also willing to try out various silks, as long as the expense isn't too much, and write up comparisons, so if there's anything you want to hear about in particular, let me know!
These photos of flat silk don't really do the different silks justice. You have work with them, feel them, play around with them, to really get the sense of which ones you like best. The thoughts here are just my opinions, after playing around with the different silks.
Unfortunately, I ordered rather pale colors from the Japanese Embroidery Center, so they don't show up as well in the photo. What we have here are three types of flat silk: Au Ver a Soie Soie Ovale, Japanese Flat Silk, and Eterna (which is a Chinese flat silk which comes in groups of 12 strands).
This is the Soie Ovale up close again. You can see the individual filaments of silk (I believe they are called "suga") which make up the full strand.
This is the Japanese silk up close. It looks fuzzier in the photo than it actually is. You can see farther down the strand, away from the end, that it is not as fuzzy as it looks. The "fuzzy" end comes from handling. Again, you can see the individual very fine suga. Each strand of Japanese silk is made up of 12 suga.
Here, you can see the stranded silk from Eterna, which I purchase from Yodamo. Each "bundle" has 12 strands, not to be confused with filaments or suga, which are much finer. Each strand of the Eterna stranded silk would be made up of so many filaments. It takes approximately 2 strands of Eterna to equal the thickness of one strand of typical DMC 6-stranded embroidery floss. So - you guessed it - one strand of Eterna is very fine, and can be used for fine detail work. Believe it or not, the strand can be further split for even finer work.
Filament silk, by the way, is the silk pulled straight from the cacoon in long strands - as opposed to spun silk, which is all the left-over spun into the thread or floss. Filament is generally stronger silk with a higher lustre.
Here, I've divided the Japanese silk (the top one is divided) and laid it next to the undivided Japanese silk. You can divide this filament silk carefully. It will go back together in a smooth strand when you run it through your fingers (I suggest Au Ver a Soie hand cream when you're doing this kind of work - it reduces the friction on the thread and the snags...) Separating the filaments gives you an even finer thread to work with.
Another close-up on the Japanese silk....
Here's the Soie Ovale separated carefully. Again, same thing - after you've separated it, running it through your fingers puts it together again for working.
Just to give you some perspective, I threw in a #10 embroidery needle, so you can get the relative size of the threads.
And here's one strand of Eterna Silk and the Japanese silk side-by-side.
The Japanese silk comes in 60-meter spools from the Japanese Embroidery Center, at $7.00 for 60 meters. Shipping is reasonable, but somewhat slow. They guarantee shipping it out within five days of placing the order. Sometimes their website is quirky and doesn't seem to work, but with persistence, you shouldn't have a problem. You can also call and place an order. All the information is on their site.
The Soie Ovale comes in 15 meter spools for about $3.35. In other words, for approximately the same price as the Japanese silk, you get 40 meters less! I order Soie Ovale from Needle in a Haystack, which is the only place that seems to carry a ready selection of it. If she's out of stock, she's quick to place the order and get the product to you. Shipping is very reasonable, and the turn-around between order and arrival is minimal.
To sum up, these are my observations on the above silks.
- Best quality of the three silks overall - it's a bit thicker (more filaments) and the thread seems to have more "body" to it.
- Most expensive overall - which is a drawback!
- Nice colors, but low range of colors - only 59 available
- No color card, but the colors match the Soie d'Alger color chart, so you can cross-reference
- Next best quality of the three silks overall - it's not as thick as the Soie Ovale, has less body, fewer filaments
- However, it has a better color range - about 258 colors - and a great color card for selection.
- Considerably less expensive when compared to the Soie Ovale
- And nice to work with, like the Soie Ovale
- Per strand, not as thick as the previous two silks, and overall, does not seem as "high quality" - but it's ok - I do like it. It is not as "flat" as the other two, either.
- The strands can be doubled, requiring the use of a laying tool to get a really smooth effect
- 5 meter skeins, with 12 strands per skein, are $.95. $7.00 will get you about 35 meters of 12 strands each, and about 3 or 4 strands equal the thickness of the Japanese silk, so, in essence, for the same price as the Japanese flat silk, you're getting about 105 meters of silk (if my math is correct!) So this is the least expensive option.
- An extensive color range - with 545 colors available.
- Printed color chart is available, but I found it inadequate in choosing colors.
If you have any insights into other silks, or questions about any silks in particular - or any recommendations, etc. - feel free to share!! I'm all ears!
I'm also willing to try out various silks, as long as the expense isn't too much, and write up comparisons, so if there's anything you want to hear about in particular, let me know!
Labels: embroidery resources, pictures, silk
Posted By: Mary Corbet on Thursday, March 08, 2007
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9 Comments:
Hello Mary
Thanks so much for your helpful comparisons. I have been giving this matter much thought lately as I am pretty certain that I will be using silk as the mainstay of my embroidery from now on.
I have some Japanese silk and also the full range of Kreinik soie platte, which I believe is same as the soie ovale. I am actually leaning towards the Piper silk. It is finer than the two mentioned above, but I'd rather double or triple my thread instead of splitting it. It comes in more colors than the soie ovale, but fewer than the japanese silk. It is not as expensive as the JEC silk either, and the tubes are smaller and easier to store.
Piper also makes their silk into various twists and folds of silk, so I can easily add some texture to my work, too. Not sure what is meant by "folds" but I think it is a very loose twist. The only downside I can see is the long shipping time from England.
Marilyn
Hi, Marilyn - Thanks again for the helpful comment! I'm going to invest in some of the Piper's silk, so eventually, I'll line that up next to the others. I agree - I'd rather work with more strands than split strands!
Mary, I have some duplicate colors of pipers if you would like I can drop a couple in the mail to you. Piper's has about a 3 week backlog right now. In addition, they are currently on vacation. Let me know your address and I will give you my extras.
Marilyn
Hi, Marilyn! That's so very NICE of you! I'd love to see some of the piper's silk! I did place an order today, but it says to expect up to a month for delivery (and that's within the UK). If you want to e-mail me at mary[at]needlenthread.com, I'll send along my address. That's the regular e-mail format with the @ symbol (avoiding extra spam...) Thanks heaps!
Howdy! I'm intrigued by your comparisons - one question that I'm still wondering about, is how twisted these "flat" silks are. I carefully measured a length of Kreinik Soie Platte, and found that it had 1 twist every .75 inches - not much, but it does make a difference. I'm trying to replicate similar embroidery silk by hand, and lightly twisting makes it easier to process.
Hi, Michael - you're right, there is a "slight" twist to most of them, except the Japanese Embroidery Center silk. It comes off the spool perfectly flat. The Kreinik Soie Platte is the same, I think, as the Soie Ovale by Au Ver a Soie - at least, they used to share the same name. When you unreel it from the spool, you do find that there is a very slight twist in the whole group of tiny strands, but it seems to me to be more of a "bunching" thing, if that makes any sense. I don't think the silk is actually twisted at all. At least, the strands don't twist together, like a proper twisted thread does. With the Chinese silk (Eterna, in this case), the whole group of filaments that make up the divisible strand is twisted (again, only slightly). When you separate them, they are more or less flat. I use a laying tool with flat silks, which keeps them REALLY flat. The Piper's Silk (or the True Embroideries Sleave Silk - TESS) comes off the real completely flat as well. Actually, you can take any of them and twist them together to make a twisted cord or even twisted silk to embroider with. I can't measure all the silks above for a twist right now - I've used up my supply of most of them and am working with twisted threads lately. The only flat silk I have is the JEC stuff, and it is flat, with no twist at all. I hope that helps!
I was surprised to find when I was researching how silk threads are created, that "a slack twist" is usually recommended even for flat silks - it keeps the filaments from snagging and making loops during the processing. I have made some flat silks where I have actually stroked them along my thumbnail after degumming and dyeing, to make them *truly* flat - and in some cases it really does make a difference. In a lot of cases, it's hard to tell if there's one twist every inch or so, because the stitches aren't that long.
The way I measured the Soie Platte (which I'm pretty sure is the same as Soie Ovale) was to put a flat fold of tape on one end so that it had to flip over visibly to untwist itself, and tape the other end to the table, and then run a pin through the center of the length. That showed up any barely-there twist, and I got 9 flips out of a six-inch length.
If you'd be willing to measure twist in a couple of different kinds, or if I could swap you something for just a foot or so of the different kinds (color is irrelevant), I'd be delighted!
Methinks I shall e-mail you... I can always dig through orts for leftovers!
MC
Hello Mary, the comparison of the different kinds of silk was such a great help to me when I was looking into what kind of silk I wanted to get. I am pretty sure that I want to buy the flat silk from the Japanese Embriodery Center, and I wanted to get a royal blue color. However, there are so many blues on their site and I don't exactly have the extra cash to invest in their awesome sample card set at this time. I was wondering since you purchased the color charts, would you mind helping me out and check which color number is the royal blue color.
I'm trying to get a blue flat silk that is closest to this royal blue flower necklace that I've made: http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=9854263
Any help you can provide will be greatly appreciated. You can also email me at itreallyaddssomething@yahoo.com
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